Interview with a Heretic
(c) 1995 Leading Edge Research
Leading Edge Research Journal #85 (Sept. 95)
POB 7530, Yelm, Washington 98597


EA: Tonight we are talking with a Heretic.

AN: Thanks, it's good to be here.

EA: We're interested in how you view the world situation at this 
time.  You've been hard at it for so many years and always seem 
to have a grasp of what's happening.

AN: Well, what we are seeing, at least on a cultural basis, is a 
collision between two major basal paradigms.  A basal paradigm 
is the basic interpretation of reality a society operates on 
that involves belief systems.  We're seeing a collision between 
the current materialist paradigm, which combines Darwinian and 
Malthusian thought patterns, with the remainder of the previous 
basal Judeo-Christian paradigm.  A major example of that 
collision was what happened at Waco with the Branch Davidians.

EA: How else can this collision be interpreted?

AN: On the one hand, the Judeo-Christian basal system, which is 
monotheistic, maintains belief patterns which dictate that an 
external God is the source of knowledge.  The current 
materialistic western paradigm believes that genetics is the 
source of knowledge and that populations must be reduced and 
individualism suppressed.  Each of these basal paradigms is 
reactionary to the one before it.

EA: What was the Judeo-Christian paradigm a reaction to?

AN: The Greco-Roman belief system of multiple external Gods.

EA: And before that?

AN: Before that was the aboriginal expression which maintained 
a direct link to the universe.  Direct knowledge with no 
intermediate.  No intercessor.

EA: What happened to that?

AN: Well, actually, it has never gone away, since it basically 
underlies all basal belief systems.  The capability for direct 
knowledge has always been there.  Subsequent social paradigms 
suppressed access to it.  That is why books relating to 
aboriginal consciousness, such as "Mutant Message", are so 
popular right now.  People inherently recognize that potential 
which lies within.  It is also why governments worldwide have 
committed genocide against native peoples.  Governments, 
including religious governments, prefer to install some sort of 
priesthood or intercessor between individuals and the universe -- 
to insulate them in order to get them to buy into the mass-to-
mass system.

EA: And geneticists are the new priesthood in our system?

AN: Exactly.

EA: What exactly are they proposing?

AN: Well, the current paradigm is based on two things.  The 
first aspect has its origin with Charles Darwin and Alfred 
Wallace, who maintained notions that natural selection is the 
only ordering principle in nature.  Thomas Hobbes came up with a 
belief that life was a struggle, each person against the other.  
Herbert Spencer came up with the idea of survival of the fittest,
which Darwin later adopted when he wrote Origin of Species.  
Most people do not realize that Darwin's book had a subtitle.

EA: Which was?

AN: The Preservation of the Favored Races in the Struggle for 
Life.  It was a basal idea that was to lead to the concept of 
"scientific selection", eugenics programs and 150 years of 
genocidal activity.  The rest of the western paradigm has its 
origin with a fellow named Reverend Thomas Malthus.

EA: What did he propose?

AN: Malthus had a pessimistic view of life.  He maintained that 
populations increased geometrically and would eventually eat 
themselves out of existence.  Fortunately, that theory has 
absolutely no scientific validity, but the elite, especially in 
Europe, grabbed hold of it because it provided justification for 
maintaining an elitist system.  Malthus maintained that a "
responsible elite" should manage population.  Whereas populations 
were once considered an asset, they were then considered a 
liability.  None of it has any validity whatsoever.  Malthusianism, 
as it came to be called, also had an even darker side.

EA: Which was?

AN: Ideological extensions of the idea of population control.  
That is, that population must be reduced, mostly through 
deliberate neglect of the infrastructure and indirect methods of 
killing, much of which is typified today by the allopathic 
system of medicine.  A good example of Malthusian principle is 
the use of AZT on an AIDS patient.  Anyway, Darwin accepted that 
Malthusian premise, and declared that it applied to the entire 
biological realm.  This suited scientists and the social elite, 
even though it has no validity at all.  So, Darwinism became the 
legitimizer of a sinister pseudo-scientific philosophy, and the 
main vehicle by which that philosophy was enabled.  The 
political consequences of Malthusian Darwinism became what we 
call Social Darwinism.  Social Darwinism, in turn, contributed 
to the rise of State Socialism as the major political mode in 
the 20th century.  Socialism is diametrically opposed to 
individual freedom, choice and evolution.

EA: And then?

AN: And then, State Socialism manifested itself into three major 
forms called National Socialism, or the Nazis, and Marxist 
Communism, both of which were built up and financially supported 
by the United States.  The third form is International Corporate 
Capitalism.  England, of course, is the snakepit of world 
socialism, with policies enforced by British Intelligence -- 
which is somewhat oxymoronic.  The U.S. is still a British 
colony.

EA: How are these related to State Socialism?

AN: Well, National Socialism is self-defined.  Marxist Communism 
is a form of International Socialism.  International Corporate 
Capitalism, the headquarters of which is mainly the United 
States, is a form of Global Socialism.  The United States, for 
example began as an egalitarian constitutional republic, not a 
democracy.  Democracy historically leads to tyranny -- every 
time.  Clinton stated at a lecture that the United States is the 
world's oldest democracy, which is a glaring error that should 
point out that there is another political agenda behind him.

EA: So, in effect, the political systems of Communism, Fascism 
and the United States are in fact three forms of the same thing.

AN: Exactly, but the public is led to believe that they are 
opposing ideological systems, when in fact they are all 
technocratic systems.  I had a laugh the other day when I saw 
the cover of Time magazine.  It said something about the fact 
that Communism had environmentally raped Siberia, and posed the 
question if Capitalism could save it.  They are two forms of the 
same thing.  Capitalism would ravage and pillage the land at an 
accelerated pace.  The public, which is generally ignorant of 
the nature of the world around them, doesn't know the difference 
and will buy into anything.  Marxist considered himself a social 
Darwinist and created a system deemed to be a social application 
of a scientific principle.  The German Fascists utilized race 
science, or eugenics, to achieve their objectives.  They learned 
eugenic principles, which derive from Malthusianism, in the 
United States.  Eugenics, the science of race, originated with 
Francis Galton, who happened to be Darwin's cousin.  Darwin's 
brother, Leonard, chaired the first eugenics conference in the 
United States in the 1920's.  At the end of the war, Nazi 
scientific and social engineers were brought into the United 
States under Operation Paperclip and integrated into the 
military, industrial and academic institutions.  This is the 
source of the allopathic biomedical genetic paradigm in the 
United States.  Nazi Germany.

EA: What evidence do you have that the United States financially 
supported the buildup of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia?

AN: There is a tremendous amount of historical evidence of this. 
It is not idle speculation.  The data is recorded in historical 
documents and many works of literature.

EA: Such as?

AN: Such as "The Unseen Hand" by Ralph Epperson and "Trading 
with the Enemy" by Charles Egham.  The last one is an expose of 
the Nazi-American money plot from 1933 to 1949.  It was 
published in 1983.  Fascinating piece of work, and all 
documented.  There are also other works, such as the 1991 book 
entitled "The Nazi Connection", which discusses eugenics, 
American racism and German National Socialism.  Other books, 
such as "Nazi Doctors", discuss implementation of these 
principles and various modalities of experimentation.  The Nazi 
biomedical paradigm was then transposed to the United States.

EA: What does all this lead to?

AN: Essentially, it forms the sociological, technical and 
practicable basis for mass genocide, which is still continuing.  
Whether it is slow, covert killing or fast overt killing is not 
the point.  It is still genocide.  The United States, after 
several years of hedging, finally signed the International 
Genocide Treaty, but only with the proviso that no nation would 
be permitted to sit in judgment of the United States.  This 
effectively permits the genocidal medical system to continue.  
Despite a plea to the UN in 1984 about the medical genocide -- 
which was a wasted effort, since the UN is a part of the problem 
-- it still continues, unabated.

EA: So, what's the answer to the problem?

AN: The system itself cannot provide the answer, since problems 
cannot be solved from the same state of consciousness in which 
they were created.  There are no "political" solutions.  The 
solution lies in the emerging quantum-based paradigm typified by 
the work of Deepak Chopra, David Bohm, Rupert Sheldrake and 
others, which will force a displacement of the current western 
paradigm.  It is already happening.  Social violence is not in 
any way part of the answer, although there is no doubt that 
before this is over, the government will create social violence 
in order to provide seeming justification for their elitist 
orientation.  Whatever transpires, people should ask themselves, 
who benefits?

EA: Cui bono?

AN: Precisely.

EA: Even if quantum solutions become a fact of life, how about 
the population?

AN: What do you mean?

EA: Will there be enough room for everyone?

AN: Of course.  The "population problem" is a derivative of 
Malthusian thought.  It does not exist and is not scientifically 
valid.  Even studies from Harvard have pointed out that the 
Earth can easily support more than 40 billion people, while 
using 25% of the ice-free arable land for farming.  Combined 
with all the new developments in high-yield, chemical free 
agriculture, there is absolutely no problem.  Right now, the 
planet is only at 1/8 capacity.  However, part of the 
manipulative technique is to periodically create doom and gloom 
scenarios of overpopulation for public consumption.  It is all a 
lie.  Every single bit of it.  The whole system, and all it 
stands for, is a total lie, from top to bottom.

EA: And the people in control know this?

AN: Of course they know it, but they do not want the people to 
wake up and realize that they must follow themselves, not anyone 
or anything, and dump all the useless belief systems they have 
been programmed with.

EA: So, voting will not make a difference?

AN: The process of voting is tantamount to asking to be governed.
You must govern yourself, with impeccability and integrity.  
If you think that voting will make a difference, well, have I 
got a good deal on a piece of land in Florida for you.  Or maybe 
a bridge in the Arizona desert.  There is no political solution. 
The main reason that it appears like planetary resources are 
inadequate is that they are mismanaged by a political system, 
mainly based on socialism.  Wipe that away, apply the concept of 
mutual aid and cooperation, and the problem disappears.

EA: So, this means all the patriot groups and those who are 
talking about Constitutional issues are barking up the wrong 
tree?

AN: In effect, yes.  They are blinded to the truth by their 
preoccupation with cultural issues that have been programmed 
into them.  It's a losing battle because the whole game, 
everything in it, is absolutely rigged.  If you view the issue 
as having two sides, the government versus the patriots, then 
both sides are in error.  Life is not supposed to be a struggle, 
each against the other.  It is an idea that has its origin with 
Hobbes, and it has been programmed into people's minds as 
defining the way life is.  It, too, is a lie.  People have been 
lied to for so long they believe it is all the truth.  It isn't. 
The whole planetary socio-cultural system is a lie.  If you are 
offered two choices, pick a third one yourself, but make it 
reasonable, impeccable, and characteristic of a non-polaric 
consciousness.

EA: What about the whole alien issue?

AN: Relative to what, specifically?

EA: Relative to what is going on in the world today?

AN: Well, there are many aspects to it.  I just finished 
attending a lecture series by Robert MorningSky.  You know, 
the "renegade" Hopi Indian.  Quite a nice fellow, really, and 
a master at the art of dance.  Anyway, he brought out several 
issues regarding alien participation in this drama.  I was 
already familiar with many aspects of it from my own work, but 
he did supply some missing pieces that could be pertinent.  I 
am not sure how much you know about the issue.

EA: Not very much, although I have read several books.

AN: Well, you have a basis for understanding the basic issues.  
The essence of it is this.  When disks began to fall in the 
southwestern United States in the late 1940's because of 
interaction between several alien species -- not because of the 
four corners radar, as some claim, the United States government 
was faced with several alien species.  One of those species, the 
reptilian grays, informed the government that they intended on 
carrying out experiments on humans.  A deal was made, sometimes 
called the Trilateral Agreement, in the 1950's, in which the 
government was to receive alien technology in exchange for 
giving permission for the grays to be here.  The grays needed 
this permission because their presence was being challenged by 
others, and if permission could be acquired from humans then 
there would be no contest.

EA: Wait, you said Trilateral.  Who was the third party?

AN: A species called the Draco.  The Indians call them the Dracu.
Primarily the one faction that is comprised of energy beings 
who subsist on negative energy.  Negative energy in this case is 
defined as that emotionally given off by fear, frustration, 
anger, despair, etc.  As the social criminal FDR said, "we have 
nothing to fear but fear itself'.  How prophetic.

EA: Are all of the Draco of this type?

AN: No.  There is a subset of the Draco who have physical 
embodiment, and a further subset of those, considered to be 
their equivalent of elite, who have winged appendages extending 
from their backs.  Someone operating from within the Judeo-
Christian basal belief paradigm would view them as appearing 
Satanic.  It is this group for whom the Grays have acted as 
custodians, relative to management of the Earth.  When they got 
too comfortable after a long absence of the Draco, the grays 
wanted it for themselves.  The battle is still in progress, from 
what we can determine.  The subset of the Draco who manifest 
electrical energy are themselves a subset of a previous race 
referred by MorningSky as the Aku, who were originally physical 
beings who split into two developmental lines.  One remained 
physical, dependent on external technology, and the other 
developmental line itself split into two lines of ethereal 
beings -- one subsisting from negative emotional output, and the 
other subsisting from positive emotional output -- the "good 
guys", you might say, in a polaric sense.  These beings who 
subsist from positive energy output, such as that emitted from 
emotional happiness, love, dancing, etc., also have winged 
appendages.  Those within the Judeo-Christian paradigm who have 
seen them call them angels, although they are not the only 
beings with apparent winged appendages.  That's another story.

EA: What about this alien shown on the autopsy film on 
television?

AN: It was a member of a race called the "Bek-Ti", who came here 
to subvert reptilian domination and got caught.  They are 
beautiful beings who appear quite differently when alive.

EA: So, how does the Trilateral Agreement work?

AN: Very simply.  Governments and the elite acquire mass-to-mass 
manipulative external technology, allow the grays to prey on 
humans, and the Draco parasitically absorb the negative 
emotional output from a perverse sociological structure.

EA: This means that during wars...

AN: Governments create wars with massive losses in human life, 
satisfying Malthusian population reduction mandates, two subsets 
of Draco feed on the meat and the negative energy output, and 
everyone is satisfied.  It's perverse, but simple, and no one in 
general would believe that anything like this could be going on. 
It is, however, the case.

EA: So all the underground bases...

AN: Function as staging areas for all of this activity.  You 
have to understand that alien technology requires a lot of money 
to work with, and that the only exchange medium that materialist 
alien species will accept is gold.

EA: Why gold?

AN: Because of its applicability in technology.  With money, you 
buy gold, and trade the gold for other things.  You also use 
international corporate capitalism to operate the whole system.

EA: Then, where does all the money used to buy the gold come 
from?

AN: Drug sales.  First it was drugs from Europe, mainly heroin, 
after World War II.  The government made a deal with the Mafia, 
who helped subvert the Nazis in Italy so the United States could 
invade.  The government released Luciano, who set up heroin 
processing labs, and the heroin was imported into the United 
States through Joseph Kennedy.  It's rather complicated.  Still, 
more money was needed, so a war was initiated in Vietnam to test 
technology in genocide, which was an acquiescence to the 
Trilateral Agreement, and drugs were imported to the United 
States in body bags and in bodies of sacrificial lambs sent to 
the slaughter.  Now, the drug business produces so much money it 
is hard not to continue in it.  The British knew that when they 
tried to subjugate China with opium.  The only difference on 
that level is that the British sold drugs to other peoples 
children.  The United States government subjugates its own 
people.  Anyway, it still isn't enough money to support alien 
manipulative technology development, the underground facilities 
program, the bases on the moon and Mars, etc.  Now, we are 
importing drugs from South America and Columbia, and those were 
initially imported via Zapata oil, run by one of the most 
dangerous men on the planet [i.e. George "just say no to 
drugs" Bush  -d4].  People also wonder where all the money from 
the S&L travesty went.  That's where it went.  It was a CIA 
exercise in financial debauchery.  So was the "Star Wars" 
program.  If the whole thing was a "sham for the Soviets", 
where did the billions of dollars go?

EA: You said the bases on the Moon and Mars?

AN: Right.  Where do you think all these missing scientists have 
been going, as well as a lot of people who disappear each year?

EA: Including the children who disappear?

AN: Partially, although disappearing children also involves a 
rather despicable aspect of the Trilateral Agreement, which I am 
sure you can visualize without me going into great detail.  In 
another vein, pardon the pun, there were a lot of children that 
were sent into time during some of the Montauk derivative 
experiments.  The government maintained a facility working with 
time travel in Arizona at one time, from what we can determine.  
The plan has also been to use children as guinea pigs in CIA/NSA 
ritual abuse programs in order to produce multiple personality 
humans, whose sub-level personalities can record observational 
data in alien environments without interference, in a sort of "
Manchurian Candidate" scenario.  The blowback is manifesting 
itself in a profusion of MPD cases, with simultaneous 
development of MPD front organizations to cover up the true 
situation -- an example being the "post-traumatic stress 
syndrome" organizations [like our favorite "False Memory 
SPINdrome Foundation"  -d4].

EA: Where were the children in the time experiments sent?

AN: The future, in a linear sense, but with no control.  They 
were just guinea pigs.  It was just a part of this great 
experiment.

EA: So, who is behind all of this?

AN: In an alien sense, the reptilian hierarchy, and from what we 
have been able to establish, reptilian females seem to control a 
great part of it.  [any correlation here with the trendy new 
renaissance of "goddess"-worship?  -d4]

EA: Where is all of this going?

AN: Well, like I have indicated before, this whole situation on 
Earth is just temporary.  I mean, after all, it is already 2002 
in a linear sense.

EA: What do you mean 2002.  It's 1995.

AN: No it isn't.  If you check the records, even some of the 
earlier encyclopedias in the late 1920's, you will find that it 
has been determined that Jesus was actually born seven years 
before it is commonly thought.  In 7 B.C., as it were.  This 
means that the year of the Maya, 2012, is only ten years away 
instead of 17 years away.  The public has been deceived on many 
levels, and this is just one of them.

EA: So, what is to happen?

AN: I have pointed out many scenarios, but recently I have 
learned of another aspect from MorningSky.  It involves what 
Sitchin called Nibiru, the so-called "dark star."  Apparently, 
it really involves what astronomers call the comet Halley-Boggs 
[Hale-Bopp?  -d4], which is on its way here.  It is made of blue 
ice.  It's appearance exactly fits an ancient Hopi prophecy.  
Its arrival will coincide with a 3-day eclipse of the sun and a 
subsequent change in space-time configuration that will mean the 
end of a cycle, as far as the Hopis are concerned.  Robert 
wouldn't go into further details because it would reveal Hopi 
secrets, but I think we have a good idea what will occur.  I 
think it is a race with the negative hierarchy trying to get all 
it can get before this happens, although there are indications 
that this is not "the big one".

EA: What do you mean?

AN: Well, if you examine Dr. Chet Snows work entitled "Mass 
Dreams of the Future", it is apparent that future life 
projections made by over 2,000 people boil down neatly into four 
categories of lifestyle.  People living in domed cities or 
houses.  People living on the land.  People living in space, in 
a minor way.  Some people living in abject misery.  All four 
future lines reveal a planetary population very much less than 
today, and all of them occur between 2100 and 2500.  So 
something happens that dramatically reduces the Earth population.
Whether it is the scenario of the "dark star" removing part of 
the population or it involves geological upheavals, or both, has 
not been determined.  We're working on that.  Another aspect is 
the work of Robert Monroe, typified in his books "Far Journeys" 
and "Ultimate Journey".  Monroe, while free of his embodiment, 
saw a world after 3000 AD in which entities could manifest 
whatever they wished from the mind.  The planet was ecologically 
repaired by design, and the bands around the Earth described in 
Far Journeys were gone.  So, something even bigger happens 
between 2500 and 3000 AD.  It could well be that any event in 
2012, which is actually ten years away, is a primary event 
preceding another one some years later.  From a dimensional 
viewpoint, of course, all of this has already occurred and the 
game has already been won.  The presence of the entities known 
as the Essessani, represented by Bashar, is an indication that 
hybridization with humans was successful.

EA: What about the idea of religion?

AN: As Robert MorningSky pointed out so aptly, and as others 
have pointed out by example, there is no religion in space.

EA: No religion?

AN: Exactly.  It is hard to understand why any entity would 
adopt a series of belief systems blindly without first checking 
them out to see where they came from, but that is the case in 
the programmed society on Earth.  The idea of religion is one 
that has been programmed into humans in order to disempower them.
Anyone who wants to argue this point has not done the research,
but is arguing only to justify the belief system on an 
emotional basis.  The root of the word "religion" has it's 
source in RA LEG ION, which are three words essentially 
translated as Law of Ra, which in turn is a conceptual 
derivation having its origin with En-lil, Lord of the Word, who 
in turn decided that he was better that the Lord of Creation, EA.
Jesus, or EA-SU, was in the realm of the Lord of Creation.  
The combined extension of the concepts of En-lil was manifested 
in four beings collectively referred to as the Jahovah group.  
Now, this Jahovah group is not the same as the singular entity 
originally deriving from the Lord of Creation.  It is a little 
complicated, and I would refer you to the combined works of 
Sitchin, William Bramley, and the much suppressed "Terra Papers" 
delineated by Robert MorningSky.  Now, this does not mean that 
humans who are involved in religious groups are "wrong", it just 
means they are misguided.  There is in fact an ultimate being in 
the physical universe.  Some refer to this ultimate being as "
God", and this ultimate being is not interpretable in human 
terms.  I repeat.  Not interpretable in human terms.  Looking at 
the universe in human terms is part of the Darwinian world view, 
and it carries no weight apart from human belief systems.  
Current Christianity, in addition, has the whole life of Jesus 
all confused.

EA: In what way?

AN: Well, an examination of the Dead Sea scrolls that have been 
released, plus the Christian Bible and other documents will 
reflect the fact that Jesus did not die on the cross, that he 
had eight children, one of whom was Barrabi, referred to as 
Barrabas in the Bible, and that he traveled to India following 
the confrontation in Palestine.  In fact, the origin of the 
Bible and New Testament itself is not understood by the common 
man.

EA: Would you mind going into that a little bit?

AN: Not at all.  The "Father of the Bible" is not God, but a 
man by name of Irenaeus, the Bishop of Lyons circa A.D. 180.  
Irenaeus had practical need for an authoritative text that would 
justify him in his main work -- the elimination of those who 
didn't agree with him.  Irenaeus set forth his orthodoxy, which 
was to become the orthodoxy, in a voluminous work titled Libros 
Quinque Adversus Haereses (Five Books Against Heresies).  "In 
his exhaustive opus Irenaeus catalogued all deviations from the 
coalescing orthodoxy and vehemently condemned them.  Deploring 
diversity, he maintained there could be only one valid Church, 
outside which there could be no salvation.  Whoever challenged 
this assertion, Irenaeus declared to be a heretic -- to be 
expelled and, if possible, destroyed."  

EA: Continue, because this is getting interesting.

AN: The heretics most hated by Irenaeus were the "Gnostics."  
Gnosticism held that the way to the supernal realm was through 
personal knowingness.  In the view of Irenaeus, this belief was 
the cardinal heresy.  It undermined the authority of the priests 
and bishops, and so impeded the work of the Church.  Irenaeus 
dedicated himself to the destruction of Gnosticism.  To this end,
Irenaeus established the "fixed truth" of the orthodoxy: "A 
theological system was required, a structure of codified tenets 
that allowed of no interpretation by the individual.  Irenaeus 
insisted on a single catholic (universal) Church resting on 
apostolic foundation and succession.  And to implement the 
creation of such a Church, Irenaeus recognized the need for a 
definitive canon -- a fixed list of authoritative writings.  
Accordingly, he compiled such a canon, sifting through the 
available works, including some, excluding others..."  The canon 
created by Irenaeus is commonly known as the New Testament.  It 
is no small testament to the power of the New Testament that one 
of the biggest themes in contemporary popular culture is the "
Apocalypse," the struggle-ending-the-world theme deriving from 
the Revelation.  Despite the fact that the authorship of the 
Revelation is uncertain, and despite the fact its ethos (spirit) 
is in some ways contradictory to the spirit of the teachings of 
Christ, the Revelation is embraced by millions as the definitive 
portrayal of humankind's transition from the Age of Flesh to the 
Age of God.

EA: How about what you said about Jesus?

AN: Well, those with rigid belief systems will not like what I 
am about to tell you.  But, if they blindly accept things 
without doing any research on it, they are asking for 
disappointment.  An examination of available data reveals that 
first of all EA-SU had eight children.  Barrabi was one of the 
oldest sons, and when EA-SU went into the temple and knocked 
over the tables of the money changers, Barrabi got carried away 
and was arrested.  Now Jesus did not want his son to be subject 
to dying on the cross, so he arrived at a plan.  He would get 
himself arrested and, knowing that the crowd understood the 
concept of succession in Hebrew families, get himself chosen to 
be crucified.  But, Joseph would see to it that he would be 
given an herb that could mimic death, so he would have to be 
taken off the cross and revived later.  He convinced Judas to 
"turn him in".  He had a hard time getting arrested and really 
had to get the attention of the authorities.  Because the crowd 
understood the concept of succession according to Hebrew law, 
Jesus, or EA-SU was picked to die in order that his son, Barrabi,
could go free.  When Jesus was nailed to the cross, Joseph of 
Arimethea bribed a guard to give EA-SU a drink from a sponge 
laced with an herb that would cause the body to mimic death.  
When Jesus went unconscious, Joseph bribed the guards to let him 
down.  One of the guards, not believing he was dead, poked him 
with the spear.  First of all, in the Bible it said that a guard 
pierced the side of Jesus with a spear, and that "the blood 
flowed freely".  That ought to be the first clue to a thinking 
person, because blood does not flow freely in someone that is 
dead.  The second is that it was forbidden by Hebrew law to 
touch a dead body.  After the unconscious EA-SU was let down, he 
was brought to the cave, where his wounds were nursed.  Later he 
left for India and attended one of the mystery schools there.  
He was seen in many places long after the cross event.

EA: So then what happened to Jesus?

AN: He eventually passed on, and his children were moved to what 
is now Southern France.  A little checking will reveal the 
Hebrew settlements there.  As the generations passed, the Church 
of Rome considered their presence on the planet to be a threat 
to Church dominion.  The quest for the Holy Grail was not a 
search for a cup.  It was the search for the descendants of 
Jesus in order to eliminate threat.  However, the function of 
the Knights Templar was to protect the descendants.  Now, it 
becomes clear why they spat on the cross, which was another 
reason they were hounded and persecuted by religion.  The most 
amazing thing is that there is a descendent of Jesus alive today,
under great protection from the reptilian bastards who would do 
him or her in.  That's all I know at the current time.  Do the 
research, and you will see that all of this checks out.

EA: Any other comments regarding Christianity as a religious 
belief system?

AN: Well, most of the people in the belief system are well 
meaning and good people, and for many of them the belief system 
works just fine.  I do not consider them to be wrong in any 
sense of the word, and I would defend their right to believe 
whatever they want to believe while they still need to use 
belief systems in lieu of experiential systems.  I do question 
the expression of the religious system insofar as the use of the 
cross, with Jesus in agony, instead of the dove or the fish.  I 
mean why would you chose to remember someone at a moment of 
agony and pain?  In the current belief system, if Jesus were 
electrocuted, would people wear little electric chairs around 
their necks, with a figure with glowing eyes and frizzed up hair?
Of course not.  Then why wear a cross?  It is religious 
programming in order to foster a portion of the belief system 
involved with the "dying for all sins" and "saving" scenarios -- 
all products of the Church -- not Jesus.  All of that was never 
intended.  They are constructions to foster the ideas of sin, 
guilt and other sources of emotion the Draco just love to bask 
in.  It is a setup.  Jesus taught that people could be like him 
and do what he does.  Why would they need to be saved?  It was 
never part of the philosophy taught by Jesus.  It is a religious 
quirk in the system.  I must make clear that I am not in a 
position to condemn any person for their religious beliefs, nor 
do I.  I question the obvious quirks in the belief system, and 
view them as being manipulative.  I am entitled to my opinion, 
like anyone else.  I am against suppression of facts, and anyone 
who decides that I should not question the system I consider to 
be suppressive.  Anyone who entertains a belief system without 
researching the belief system deserves what they get.  Go ahead, 
kill the messenger.  That's what they tried to do to Jesus 
Christ.

EA: How does this interpretation of reality reflect on current 
Earth religions?

AN: It is not an interpretation of reality.  It IS reality.  
Well, the ultimate being in the physical universe is one who has 
collected the most experience, is the most loving, compassionate,
empathic being that exists at any one time.  In accordance with 
current Earth religious belief system terminology, God is, in 
fact, a kind benevolent being in all the glory many Earth 
religions believe God to be.  The ultimate being is in fact not 
male or female, but contains both experiential aspects.  It is 
also not permanent.

EA: What do you mean, not permanent?

AN: The ultimate being in the physical universe can also be 
replaced at any time by another being who has more experience, 
but it still amounts to the continuous existence of an ultimate 
being in the universe.  However, it is not the only ultimate 
being in existence.

EA: How do you mean?

AN: Each dimension has its ultimate being that represents the 
epitome of experiential wisdom.  When the ultimate being in the 
physical dimension becomes displaced by another and moves into 
the next dimension, it has the potential of displacing the 
ultimate being in the next dimension.  However, the actual 
number of beings who could potentially become the ultimate being 
in each dimension become less as the dimensions are ascended.  
At the top of it all, it the highest dimensional frequency, 
there is one ultimate being who has the most experience, the 
most wisdom and the most of everything.  It is the consciousness 
of this being which is apparently manifest through all awareness 
in the universe.  All of us are connected to it and are a part 
of it.  It is because of this that individuality is ultimately 
an illusion, in an absolute sense of the word.

EA: So what does this knowledge do to belief systems?

AN: It simply replaces them with experiential systems.  Beliefs 
have absolutely nothing to do with experience.  A wise teacher 
once said, "belief is convincing yourself of something you have 
yet to know and understand through experience."  Of course, what 
one believes, one will convince themselves that it is true.  
Notice that when someone comes up to you and asks you, do you 
believe in whatever, that they are really looking for support 
for what they believe?  Otherwise, they would not argue with you.
One of the real problems here on Earth is that the population 
does not understand the basic relationship between experience, 
wisdom and truth, so they are always looking outside of 
themselves for truth.  They get caught up in cultural 
considerations about information, misinformation and truth.

EA: Well, what is the relationship between those concepts?

AN: I must again defer to the wisdom of one of my teachers in 
this answer.  [One cannot help but wonder at this point why AN 
must "again defer to the wisdom of one of his/her teachers" 
after the previous diatribe on his/her perceived need to do away 
with teachers, intermediaries, etc. in favor of experiential 
"isness or knowingness"...?  -d4]  Because of the nature of 
this world, it operates in duality, with the complementary 
aspects seen as "good and bad", "black and white" -- as 
opposites.  Actual experience occurs in a dualism, not only 
because of this, but because of the nature of perception itself. 
In order to perceive something you must be separate from it.  
In order to know something, which does not involve belief, you 
must become one with it.  This idea itself can transform the 
concept of religion into an experiential format instead of a 
format requiring belief.  Anyway, if you absorb the experience 
and "own" it -- otherwise you will repeat the experience in 
endless variations until you do, you acquire wisdom.  Wisdom 
does not have a polarity.  There is no "good" wisdom or "bad" 
wisdom.  Just wisdom.  Wisdom cannot be taught.  Wisdom also 
imparts a sense of personal truth.  So, truth can only be seen 
as a product of wisdom.

EA: What is the connection between the aboriginal consciousness, 
with its direct knowing, and all of this?

AN: A society that plans on interacting with the rest of the 
universe must combine direct knowing with active conscious 
creation, which is a product of the quantum transition in social 
thought patterns.  It must address the "is-ness" in reality, and 
it involves embracing the unknown.  The greatest unknown is 
within.  Your job is to make the unknown known, and that process 
also involves experience, not belief systems.  As I stated 
before, the reason so-called "primitive cultures" and Gnostic 
systems of knowledge acquisition have been suppressed on this 
planet is that they require no middle man.  No priesthood.  No 
intercessor.  It has been a continuos drive to suppress contact 
between man and the nature of the universe, the Creator, the 
sense of ultimate beingness.  Whether the priesthood is found in 
a church or the genetic labs of international corporate 
capitalism doesn't matter.  They are all part of the same thing. 
It is also the reason why those who disseminate the truth about 
reality are persecuted on this primitive world.  They don't want 
you to know.  They don't want you to be happy.  They want you to 
suffer, in pain, guilt and misery, in order to support the 
system.  You must become someone other than who you are.  You 
must be as a child in viewing the universe.  You must stop 
seeing the world through the dark glasses bolted to your face by 
suppressive beings who are parasites.

EA: I guess that says it all.  Is there any last word that you 
have to say on all of this?

AN: I have been asked that question many times on many programs --
what is the last word?  What could one say if one were to have 
the last word?  Be at peace and know that you are greatly loved 
by the Creator, be joyous, dance, sing, and make alternative 
choices on how to conduct your lives that are in support of the 
evolution of consciousness, your children's future and 
generations to come.  Understand the nature of the social 
structure that has been thrust upon you, and focus on what you 
know to be true within your experience.  Trust your feelings.  
You exist between your thoughts.  Get in contact with your self. 
Become that which you aspire to.  Change your life.  What is 
stopping you from emulating and following the essence of the 
Creator?  Get rid of it in your life, and create your existence 
anew.


LE Editor: As a footnote to the above, I did some checking.  
After considerable effort, I found evidence that this might not 
be the actual year 1995, but somewhere between 2000 and 2002.  
In the 1927 World Book Encyclopedia, under "New Testament 
Chronology", p.4188: "Although the Christian Era is supposed 
to date from Christ's birth, through an early error in 
calculations, that event and the era do not coincide.  We know 
from the second chapter of Matthew that Christ was born in the 
reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 B.C.  Christ's birth 
probably occurred two or three years before that date, in 6 or 7 
B.C.  The story of the Wise Men who followed the star has 
given rise to various speculations concerning unusual heavenly 
signs of that period.  Kepler is the authority for the statement 
that a conjunction of the planets Saturn and Jupiter could be 
seen in Palestine in the year 7 B.C."  

----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, there you have it, folks -- straight from the "Heretic's" 
mouth.  I personally found this interview to be one of the most 
fascinating I have ever encountered and find the vast bulk of it 
to be a very concise and succinct analysis of much of the global 
custodial machinery which has ground on incessantly and almost 
invisibly in the tactically obscured background for at least the 
last few millennia, screaming towards an inevitable culmination 
as we rapidly approach the "end of the age," eschatologically 
speaking.

$64K? = Cui Bono, mi amigos?

-d4