Anchor Windlass Repair
Hey folks,
I've pulled my windlass and
am doing research to find my options. I've learned that the maxwell
VC500 is designed to be vertical mounted but Catalina designed the locker for a
horizontal mounted windlass. It's neatly hidden by mounting it this way unlike
most horizontal above deck types but to get a windlass with a chain gypsy and a
good method of holding the chain on and a chain pipe with a stripper isn't
possible.
Maxwell offers a VWC kit or raplacement but then It would need
to be actually mounted vertically. So far I see only the VW option. which is just a chain gypsy (no arm to prevent chain skips
or a stripper arm) I've watched a few smaller boats remotely operate the
windlass from the helm. (Just drop the anchor off the roller then do everything
else from the helm) This is what I'm trying to rig as I will be single handed Many
times. thanks
Rich Walker for the info on the kit modification to make the VC a VW. I may do
that but also am interested in using 5/16" chain and Then
I'd need to get a full VW800 unit.
I'm considering all options.
Maybe going with the VW800 and then trying to get a spring loaded arm
fabricated to help prevent chain skip. Another option could be, modifing the access door and mounting an above deck
windlass maybe on the top (where the foot switch is located) That
might not be as bad as it sounds.
This should be easier.
Todd
s/v Hestia
C320 #820
My VW500 has a stripper arm,
but this is a bit redundant given the horizontal mount, because the chain
simply falls off the back of the gypsy as it comes in. The stripper arm, which is mounted pointing straight
down, would only come into play if the chain were to stick to the gypsy for
some reason. This hasn't ever happened
to me, but then I don't use all that much chain here on the
The VW500 manual describes
methods for wiring using a two-way foot switch that would let you reverse the
motor in order to lower the anchor. I
don't think I would do this from the helm, however. At the
very least you would have to deal with the fact that most of the anchors
I've seen are not self launching when mounted on the stock anchor roller,
especially with the chain locker cover closed.
Scott Thompson
scott,
did you get the kit to modify
the vc and it comes with a stripper arm? right, I'd still need to go forward to get
the anchor off and on the roller (and can be done in a less crowded location)
but with a remote or a second up/down switch and with our deep locker I should
be able to do the drop/pickup by staying closer to the helm (especially in some
of those crowded anchorages.)
thanks for the note.
Todd
Todd, I don't know if the
conversion kit includes a stripper arm.
I Bought my boat used, so I don't know if it
came from the Catalina factory with a VW500, or if the previous owner installed
the conversion kit. I suspect the
former, because the boat came with a manual for the VW500. Whomever installed
the VW500 on my boat didn't understand the stripper arm issue, because the deck
plate for the windlass had been installed with the stripper arm pointing
straight up. This made it impossible to
actually use the chain gypsy because the fair lead from bow roller to gypsy put
the chain resting on top of the stripper arm right where it should have been
entering the gypsy. Only after I removed and reinstalled the windlass with the
stripper facing the other way (i.e. down) could I use the chain gypsy on my
boat.
Actually, that's not
strictly true, because I used it for a while with No stripper arm at all by
simply unbolting the thing to get it out of the way. The windlass worked fine without a stripper
arm, at least for raising anchor.
This is my first boat with a
windlass and I was seriously confused about how to use the chain gypsy given
the horizontal installation (not covered in the Maxwell manual) and improper
positioning of the stripper arm. It
didn't help that the local Catalina dealer didn't recognize the problem and gave
me bad advice about how to use the chain gypsy.
Maxwell was very helpful diagnosing the installation problem over the
phone and helping me with questions of the sort you are struggling with. Give them a call.
Excuse my ignorance but what
is a stripper arm? I'm interested in Anything which might make anchoring - or rather pulling up
the anchor easier. We've just returned from chartering a Jeanneau
37 in
P.s. I can heartily
recommend Croatia as a yacht charter destination - although I didn't see a
single Catalina - just lots of Beneteaus, Jeanneaus,
Annie Bennett
Topcat #812
Annie: The stripper arm
on the Maxwell windlasses is a small piece of metal that bolts onto the deck
mounting plate. It extends over the chain
gysy and then bends down to almost touch the rotating
part of the chain gypsy. The purpose is
to knock the chain off the gypsy as it comes round so that you don't get an
over-ride. It caused me no end of
trouble in the original incorrect installation on my boat because it was in the
wrong position and interfered with the chain as it entered the gypsy, instead
of where it was supposed to exit the gypsy.
The stripper arm hardly seems necessary on a 320 because the horizontal
shaft mounting setup of the windlass causes the chain to more or less fall off
the gypsy due to gravity, before it ever touches the stripper arm. As for your problems with the anchor on Topcat,
a chain gypsy on the windlass might help, but not if you are experiencing some
kind of hangup. My anchor typically can be pulled over the
roller without much difficulty. But
there is some much variation from boat to boat in anchor gear that it is hard
to generalize about this. Maybe you should
consult a rigger.
Scott
I have a question for Roy
Kraft or anyone else who has the version of the Maxwell Windlass with a chain
gypsy installed: What is the correct
Orientation
of the stripper arm? (That's the short, bent,
metal arm attached to the metal deck plate with one bolt that
"strips" the chain off the gypsy thus preventing an over-ride.) The manual doesn't cover this for a
horizontal installation such as is used on the 320. On my boat the stripper arm is mounted on the
top of the windlass. This prevents me
from running chain straight from the bow roller to the gypsy, and seems
completely wrong to me. It would make
more sense if the deck plate were rotated 180 degrees so that the stripper were
on
the bottom, or 90 degrees so
that it were facing forward. If anyone
else has this option installed, I'd very much like to compare notes.
By the way, it isn't clear
that the stripper is actually needed with a horizontal mount because gravity
should pretty much strip the chain off the bottom of the windlass. I'm hoping I don't actually have to
completely uninstall the windlass in order to re-orient the deck plate.
Have
emailed Maxwell with this question, but no replies yet after several days. Maybe they all went sailing for the 4th.
------------------
T. Scott Thompson
sthompson@toad.net
Surprise, 653
Scott, I suggest you call Maxwell at
1-949-631-2634. They are very helpful. I have to check on WindWalker
II to see how we did it, I don't recall but think you
are correct.
Cheers
Dick Walker
S/V WindWalker
II C-320 #687
619.435.8986
ANCHOR WINDLASS 2
I'm still trying to get
comfortable with the anchor windlass in my "new" boat. It's a Maxwell VW500 with chain gypsy. The anchor has about 15 feet of G4 high test
chain and then nylon rode (1/2"?).
I have the standard foot switch, with no reverse, and lots of questions that
the manual doesn't really address. We
typically anchor in 7-12 feet of water with mud bottom. The anchor is a Danforth
clone. When I bought the boat the clutch
on the windlass had been unscrewed to its
loosest limit and the chain was not
in the gypsy, suggesting that perhaps the prior owner didn't use it.
Of all the systems on my new
boat, this one confuses me the most, and I have lots of questions.
I assume that if I had an
all chain rode I would keep the chain on the gypsy at all times and use the
clutch to lower the anchor and the motor to raise it. I've never dealt with a windlass before. But the combination of chain and nylon
confuses me. It doesn't appear to be a good
idea to run the nylon through the chain gypsy, but if I don't
then I don't see how I get the
chain on/off the gypsy at the transition.
What's the best way to deploy/retrieve the anchor with this setup?
I'm also not clear about
maintenance for the windlass. When I
remove the deck inspection plate there is the gear box clear sight glass staring
up at me. What should I see (or not see)
when I look at this? Right now I don't see anything. The manual says that oil should be half way
up the sight glass when the windlass is held vertically (meaning with the
capstan shaft vertical, I presume, since this is what is shown in all of the
installation instructions). But my
windlass is mounted 90 degrees from
this, with the sight glass facing up. Do
I really have to remove the thing just to check the oil level? Where do I get
the SAE 90 oil that is recommended?
The manual also suggests
disassembling the windlass for lubrication every three years following the
instructions in steps 5, 12, 13 and 14 of the installation instructions. But my manual doesn't have instructions
numbered greater than 10. The
instructions that I do have do not make clear how I would lubricate the capstan
shaft where it goes through the deck plate without removing the gearbox/motor assembly. Is that necessary?
1) What's the best and safest way to deploy the
anchor with this setup. Specifically, should I be putting the chain
Hi Scott,
Just for some clarification, since the C320
didn't used to come with a chain gypsy for chain stock, either the previous
owner installed the upgrade kit, or had the factory install it initially. As a result, you main not get a swarm of
responses on the best way to manage this particular windlass.
Hopefully the folks who've
done this upgrade can comment. Many
folks simply use the drum and find that it pulls the chain nicely. Some folks have de-chromed the drum to avoid
getting chrome chips in the rhode. Mine mostly sits there and looks pretty
because I typically just pull the rhode in by
hand. (although
I've got to admit that the 35lb Delta makes me think twice every time I do
this...)
Some day I'll learn to do
this, properly... :)
In the mean time, I've posted
some pics in the Technical Photo gallery which give
some camera angles of the Windlass that most folks can't get to. Behind the Teak board that's the back of the
shelf is a fiberglass panel which blocks access the windlass. Generally, you'll have to remove the board
below the shelf to access the windlass.
I've clipped
that off that tab of the liner
and made the board behind the vberth shelf removable
for quick access to the windlass and the spaces/wiring behind it.
The pictures I took weren't
looking for anything in particular. If
you'd like me to take a few shots from any particular angle, just let me know..
I've done the first phase of
my modified Vberth shelf project which was to cut
away this excess fiberglass liner and make the shelf about 4" inches deeper. Next phase will be to cut an easy access
door on each side of the back panel of the shelf, then add a freame and Teak louvred doors to
trim out the vberth. (I'm waiting for Stan to do this
first, so I can
copy him... :)
Sorry this got off topic..
Well I doubt if it matters,
but I'm assuming that my windlass was a factory install. That's because the VW500 manual was stapled
closed when I got it.
Since posting the original
question, I've checked the Maxwell web site.
They clearly identify this windlass and the VC 500 model as vertical
capstan models. There's no mention of
installing it horizontally, as Catalina does.
I'm a bit concerned that the lube instructions for a vertical install
are inappropriate when the gears are rotated 90 degrees from the manufacturer's
suggested orientation. I'm tempted to just fill it up with oil, or at least
fill it enough so
that the contact points between
the main shaft gear and worm gear are submerged. In the normal orientation the worm gear is constantly
bathed in oil, if I'm reading the blowup diagram correctly. Has anyone done that? Any ill effects if so?
I'm tempted to not use the
thing at all, but my wife recently injured her back and so I may have to go up
there from now on. ;-) (No, she didn't injure her back pulling the
anchor. It was helping me lift our
dinghy that did it, but that's another story.)
Scott Thompson
Surprise, #653
Hi Scott,
Highly unlikely that the factory installed
it, but there is always that remote possibility. You might contact the boat's previous owner
Ed Dooley and perhaps he'd provide the low-down here, and perhaps some tips
about how he used it.
Also, Dick Walker, who wrote the original
article (I think) on upgrading the VC windlass to the VW
may be a valuable resource here as well.
Regarding the Vertical vs. Horizontal
placement, only Maxwell can definitively answer that question.
Unless you're planning
to use it extensively and put tons of hours on it, I wouldn't worry about the
orientation, but would still do the regular maintenance.
I had the same question as
to lubrication. The following is the answer from Maxwell:
Mr. Seif,
The installation of a VW 500
vertical winch mounted horizontally down inside the locker is an approved installation.
The oil bath gearbox throws the oil around enough as soon as it is running to
lubricate the bearing at the end of the worm gear efficiently. To check the oil
level in the gearbox, you would have to remove the gearbox from the bulkhead
that it's attached to. The oil will not
need to be changed for about 3-4 years from date of purchase.
Regards,
Scott Worsham
Sales and Service
Representative
Maxwell Winches Inc
I recommend that you
purchase the kit for adding the chain gypsy.
This is the procedure thanks to Ray Kraft.
Larry-I thought this was
previously sent in but apparently not. I
have updated a little and submit for use if you wish. Please shorten as required. Roy Kraft
"Sea Wings" #187 Modifying the Maxwell VC500 Anchor Windlass. While cruising in
The kit consists of a new,
longer shaft, new deck plate, wildcat, brake cones and brake bar, outer brake
adjuster and some bits and pieces. They told me it would take about two hours
to install which had they sent a sheet of instructions
that might have been close. It took me
more like six hours but if I would have had proper instructions could probably
have done it in three. They did send the
manual for the VW500 which has a "blow-up" of all the parts. Now for the installation:
1. Tools required: Large screwdriver, metric socket wrench, and circlip pliers.
2. Remove the teak panel below the storage ledge in the forward
V-berth area. Four screws and the panel drops out. Do not
take out the upper panel as I did. You
will see the windlass motor, and gear case.
3. Open the anchor locker and remove the plastic cover on the end of
the capstan exposing the
capstan screw and washer. Remove the
screw and washer and slide off the capstan drum.
4. Save the capstan key that fits in a groove of the exposed shaft.
5. With a socket wrench remove the four bolts (outside) that hold
the gear casing to the deck plate. The
gear case won't drop out since it is still connected to the shaft.
6. Crawl into the V-berth and carefully work the gear box, motor and
shaft out of the compartment. and set aside.
7. Now remove the four nuts (inside the v-berth compartment) holding
the deck plate to the vertical
bulkhead. You may be able to more easily
reach them through the inspection plate on the top of the chain locker
(outside).
8. Carefully break the seal on the deck plate and remove. They do not send a new washer so be careful
not to tear the existing washer.
9. Bring the motor gear box into the cabin and with the circlip pliers remove the circlip
on the bottom.
10. Install the new deck plate over the old washer and tighten the
nuts on the four studs. Careful to not over tighten.
I had to cut the studs shorter since Catalina had forced in an SAE
threaded bolt in one of rhe deck plate holes instead
of a metric stud.
11. Remove the old shaft and replace with the new longer shaft,
installing the two circlips
to hold it in place. Using
waterproof grease, grease the shaft, particularly where it goes through the
deck plate bearing.
12. Take the motor/gear box into the lower compartment and work the
shaft through the hole and in place to receive the four gear housing
bolts. It WILL fit!
13. Evenly tighten the four housing bolts-Again, don't over tighten.
14. Install the stbd shaft key and the
greased brake cone.
15. Install the wildcat.
16. Install the port brake cone and tighten the set screw.
17. Replace the capstan over the port shaft key.
18. Install the new brake plate, capstan washer and screw.
19. Install; the old plastic cover
That should complete the
installation assuming I didn't forget something. Study the parts blowup and it should be
easy. I tried to remove the deck plate
BEFORE taking out the housing bolts.
Won't work! I purchased 200 feet
of ACCO ¼ inch High test G-4 chain (140 pounds) For
$1.35 per foot from Washington Chain and Supply (206-623-8500). West Marine wanted $2.39 per foot for the
same chain; however, they would match the Washington Chain price. By the way if
you have a different size or type chain you must let Maxwell know so they can
supply the correct wildcat.
I then bought the blaster
pump made by Jabsco and installed it next to the medicine
cabinet in the head (out of sight behind the wall). I plumbed in to the head salt water input and
ran hose up to the chain locker. I then
put a small valve in the chain locker so I can get washdown
water up forward. I was able to wire the
pump into the windlass circuit breaker so there is little chance I can leave
that system on and under pressure. All in all a worthwhile investment.
Roy Kraft, "Sea
Wings"
Cheers,
Dick Walker
C-320 (687) WindWalker II
619.435.8986
Anchor Windlass 3
I have purchased for install
the Maxwell VC 500 to VW 500 conversion kit.
For those who have gone before, I have a few questions. Do I need to convert to an all chain
rode? And if not, how does the shackle
between the rope and chain get through the windlass? It looks like I can use the top part of the
windlass for rope then switch over to the bottom for chain but I am unsure how
the switch happens. What size chain if I
have to go all chain? Thanks in advance.
Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - #808
Herrington Harbour South
Allan: You don't need all chain. However, the chain MUST be matched to your
chain gypsy exactly. I believe the
default chain size for this model is G4 high tensile chain, but double check
with Maxwell to be sure, as I'm sure they make different chain gypsies for
different kinds of chain. Alternatively,
take the gypsy to a chandlery when you
buy your chain.
The switch is done by hand
on my boat. When the chain is almost up to the windlass I grab the chain by
hand, pull the anchor up slightly by hand so that I have a little bit of slack
chain, and drop this over the chain gypsy.
This secures the chain to the windlass well enough to take the load
temporarily. I then unwind the rope part
of the rode from the capstan drum before restarting the motor, so that the
incoming chain can drop straight into the locker instead of going around the
capstan. If you have a heavy anchor or
back problems this might be difficult, but in my case with 15' of chain,
usually anchoring in less than 10' of water, the anchor is usually still on the
bottom when I get to the splice.
The key to dealing with the
shackle is to not use a shackle.
Instead, learn to make or have a rigger make a rope to chain
splice. Suitable splices are described
in "The Rigger's Apprentice" by Brion
Toss. But even without a shackle there
is no easy way to transition from rope to chain without something like the
procedure I described above.
Scott Thompson
Thanks Scott - I was afraid
that the answer would be what it was. I
had back surgery in December (lumbar fusion) and was hoping to get around
having to pull the anchor by hand. Plus
the anchor is a 35-lb CQR. The windlass conversion
and a pending snow-blower are my 2 major concessions to my back!
Allan
Allan: Another approach that you could try would be
to let some of the chain wrap around the capstan (which will eventually ruin
its finish), then stop the windlass and attach a snubber line to temporarily
take the strain. Then you could unwind
the chain from the capstan and drop it over the gypsy. Finish up by nudging the windlass a few
inches to take the strain off the snubber.
Then disconnect the snubber and raise the anchor the rest of the way
using the gypsy. It's basically the same
idea that I use, but using a snubber line instead of your back to carry the
strain while you make the switch.
There's always a way to use brains instead of brawn. It just takes more
time.
Allan: The other advantage of using a
"snubber" is a safety issue. Depending on the size and length of
chain you use, there can be a substantial weight involved. Standing on the bow with the anchor locker
open does not give you good footing for lifting the weight. The wake from a passing boat can cause you to
either drop the chain, slip on the deck or step into the open locker.
The "snubber" is
not an expensive or complicated device.
On a boat I used to race on, the skipper used a stainless steel hook,
like the ones used on the down haul and a short piece of line tied to a pad eye
in the anchor locker. You could also use
a carbineer to attach it to the cleat in the locker. It is also used to secure the chain when the
anchor is in the roller.
Dave Gleason
Proud Mary, #150
I recently had the Maxwell
chain gypsy upgrade installed. From
postings on this list, we decided not to install the chain stripper. Since converting to a chain rode, bringing the
anchor up without overrides on the gypsy has not been possible. I called Maxwell and asked them if the
stripper should be installed, given the horizontal install of the
windlass. The answer was, "Absolutely". So I installed the stripper Friday
night. Yesterday I wound up anchoring 3
times before I got a good holding. This AM, I brought the anchor up to come home. So, after 3 times of bringing the anchor up
in the past 24 hours, no overrides! I
would now advise those who did not install the chain stripper to do so if you
have ever had an override.
Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - #808
Herrington Harbour South
Probably stupid questions,
but I have no windlass experience:
I assume the stripper is
intended to cause the chain to "fall off" the gypsy at some point in
the rotation. Correct? What does the stripper look like? Is it the L-shaped finger bolted to the
windlass base in this picture?
http://udel.edu/~danderer/c320/windlass.jpg
http://udel.edu/%7Edanderer/c320/windlass.jpg>
If so, is that installed
correctly? It would seem to me that it
would be placed somewhere else on the circumference, and not where the chain
feeds in. But again, I don't know what
I'm talking about.)
Thanks.
That's the stripper
alright. Your windlass is not installed correctly. I had the exact same problem with my boat,
which was apparently never noticed by the dealer or previous owner. The stripper should be on the bottom, not the
top. The problem is with the plate that
the stripper bolts to. It's almost
symmetric, but not quite, and yours is mounted 180 degrees out of the correct
position. Correcting this requires
disassembling the windlass, removing the motor and
gearbox, unbolting the mounting
plate from the inside, turning it 180 degrees and then putting everything back
together. That's what I did and the
windlass is now much easier to use.
As an interim measure I
simply removed the stripper. I never had
any problems with that solution, which I used for several months. But obviously Allan has had problems, so you
should probably do the right thing and take everything apart and remount
properly.
By the way, the mounting
studs are much longer than they need to be and reassembly will be easier if you
shorten them. I cut them off with a hacksaw
after removing the unit from the boat.
Measure BEFORE removing from the boat so you know how much to remove.
------------------
T. Scott Thompson
sthompson@toad.net
Surprise, 653
