Evidence that the "older Thomas Phelps of Caswell Co, NC was from Wales -
and possibly also James Phelps
By Doug Phelps
New info 3/2008, editing and minor changes 8/2014
Introduction - with arguments to support a Wales origin of Thomas Phelps (not the son of James d. 1786 Caswell).
Comments from the owners of the letter
More comments from the owner of the letter
My Interpretation of the Letter
Why I believe Thomas may have been from Wales
Additional letter written by Bellonie that adds other related information
Chart of Bellonie's ancestors - with suggested parents of George and Thomas Roan
Another descendant adds Welch support (new 3/2008)
Living in Caswell County at the time of our James, d. 1786 Caswell Co, was a Thomas Phelps (1727-1823), whose wife's name we do not know. This Thomas was not James' son, Thomas, and is now referred to as the "elder" or "older" Thomas. (Supportive detail is found here and here.) With the discovery of 1899 letter in 2008, written by a great granddaughter of this Thomas,, there is now some evidence indicating that Thomas, or possibly his father, was an emigrant from Wales. The evidence is based on an 1899 letter written by a Bellonie Griffin Kelly to a cousin describing their ancestry which included Thomas.. Could it be possible James and this elder Thomas were related?
(Please understand that several Phelps researchers have concluded from many documents with confidence that the other Thomas Phelps living in this area at this time was a son of James Phelps. That Thomas married Mary Pass and Mary "Polly" McKissack. He is not the Thomas in this article. )
No evidence of a direct paternal relationship between this Thomas and any other Phelps has ever been discovered despite countless hours of research. However several pro and con clues are worthy of consideration, allowing the reader to form his opinion:
PRO:
Thomas' great-grandaughter, Elizabeth Thomas, married Ambrose Phelps (d. 1850 Caswell), a grandson of James Phelps (Thomas Phelps>Nancy+Thomas Roan>Fanny+Jacob Thomas>Elizabeth)
A Delphia Phelps, another daughter of Thomas Phelps, married a George Roan March 29, 1788 in Caswell and was bonded by a Reuben Phelps. We now know that Reuben was a son of James Phelps d 1786. Reuben even named his own daughter Delphia. Even though there are no other records indicating a family tie of Thomas to James, this information may indicate one. (Research by Mark Phelps, 2008)
From Karen now living in the UK karenandcarlphelps AT yahoo.co.uk Phelps name here in the U.K. and it is a Welsh/West county name in that it is from the South Wales, and the English county,s on the southern borders and across the Seven Estuary, Glostershire in particular, It is some time ago since i checked the possible origins of the name but as far as i could see it was mostly Southern Wales and the west country.
From a Marilyn Phelps mjphelps AT gmail.com 3/2008, a descendant of James. My great-grandmother Clara McCreary Phelps told me in 1981 when I asked her the ethnic background of the family that the Phelps' were Welsh and her side was Welsh-Irish. (See further comment here)
CON:
The Phelps paternal lineage of the 4 major Phelps lines have a YDNA "haplogroup" of E1a1" which does not point to the British Isles or western Europe. This unexpected result is under study.
Thomas Phelps lived in the Gloucester District of Caswell - in the Leasburg area - NOT the area where James lived which was the Richmond District where Mary, Rueben, and James' son Thomas were shown in the 1790 Census . Other than the above evidence, no additional records have been found indicating any type of business or personal contact.
Thomas seemed to be of a higher status than the other nearby Phelps. He owned owned 14 slaves and was responsible for legal work in VA. See further detail here
In a review of family oral histories some years ago, there were several who had heard of three brothers from England coming to America. Could this have been related to the three New England Phelps lines, now known not to be related to us??
The Letter - Overview
The letter written in 1899 by a great granddaughter of Thomas Phelps stated that Thomas - or possibly his father - was from Wales. The writer of the letter was born in 1815. The letters of this woman are in the possession of Jim and Connie Roan jcrj@socket.net , researchers of the Roan line who descended from the daughter of Thomas' daughter Nancy Phelps and her husband Thomas Roan.
The key sentence in the letter is "My great grandmother Phelps was a daughter of one of the great Lords of England. I have heard the older ones say she runaway from her father and old grandfather Phelps was a native of Wales." Additional information 8/2007: The term “runaway”may have had more meaning than the letter writer realized. “Runaways” were a specific term used in the 17th and 18th centuries in colonial America, meaning one who ran away from indentured servitude. Such extremely common indentures resulted from voluntary agreements for around seven years or from penal transportation from the British Isles. Perhaps half or more of all immigrants to the central states were indentured. See the article on indentured servants.
My relative, David Phelps, and I studied this letter in great detail. Since it was written by a person born when Thomas Phelps was alive and who at least knew of many of these people and wrote about them, it may well be the best document that points to the ancestors of Thomas and James Phelps. At the least, it should open the door to an entirely new area for research. David and I are descended from this Thomas Phelps as well as from the Thomas Phelps (b. bet 1766-1770, d. 1849) who was a son of James Phelps.
I have gone to great effort to make sense of the entire letter in order to get an indication of just how much we can trust Bellonie's comments. While clearly she was in advanced age and did not write as clearly as we would want, I found her to be entirely rational - once an understanding of her Roan family was laid out.
At first glance one may conclude there is a huge time gap between the Thomas Phelps described here and the letter of 1899, a close inspection reveals the time gap to be not quite so long. Thomas lived until 1823 (age 96). The lady who wrote the letter was born in 1815 and at age 84, was describing her great-grandfather 76 years after he died (incorrectly stated by her in her quote to be her grandfather) She was 8 when he died and probably had at least seen the man as a child. Her parents died young about 1829 and her grandparents died later, about 1835. She had uncles and aunts (grandchildren of Thomas) who lived until 1869, 1876, 1874, and 1883 - and were 20-40 years old when Thomas died. So she was recalling information, at age 84, given her by relatives who definitely knew old Thomas. So she recorded what she was told by those who had a very good reason to know the truth.
Comments from Jim and Connie Roan, owners of the letter
I found a letter I had been searching for. It was written by Bellamae Griffin Kelly in 1892 to James Tate Roan. In it she mentions that she went to Florida with Sarah (Sallie) Roan and James T. (Indian James) Roan after the death of her parents in 1827 and 1829. They adopted (or at least took) the children of Annis (Sarah's sister) and Alexander with them. She said they were wonderful parents, and the children could not have been treated better by their own parents. She respected James T. so much that she named her son after him. James T. Roan Kelly. So perhaps Indian James was just a nickname. With some of the names they gave children in those days it is hard to tell.
Florida Liberty Co.
Bristol April 15 [the date of this letter's postmark was 1899]
Mr. James Tate Roan
Dear Cousin,
I received a package of letters and was so delighted to hear from you. I answered them as quick as I could. I received cousin Frannie Stewart letter one day and yours the next day bearing the news of cousin Nancy's death. I wrote many pages and sent but no answer came so I write again. I answered every the best I could.
You said the most important thing was the parents of my grandfather and what county in Virginia they all came from. I never heard any county mentioned but always heard him [Thomas Roan} speak of Norfolk Virginia. I saw his mother once and heard that he had a sister. They [the Roans] were English people. His mother was born in England and if my grandfather was not born England he was born soon after his mothers arrived? My great grandmother Phelps was a daughter of one of the great Lords of England. I have heard the older ones say she runaway from her father and old grandfather B/P? Phelps[1] was a native of Wales. Those south Florida? Roans wrote to me to know of old uncle George Roans parents and brothers but I never so much as heard that he had any kinfolks except old grandmother Phelps. She was his aunt and he married his cousin and my grand father married his cousin a sister of uncle George Roans wife so the men was cousins and married sisters xxxx? Cousins and my uncle and aunt that raised me was children of these two couple. I suppose from all I ever heard that those old people run away from England just as they could get a chance. Men would take their children of out their mothers arms saying their children should not be raised under a king and I think they runaway or would have heard something of these former parents. My grand father went in the army very young and was given a pension and follow the drum and was given a pension when he was old he applied for it and claimed it after I left that country so I heard. I will write again if I do not get an answer.
Your loving cousin
B M Kelly
Further comments from Connie Roan
A little background on the writer of the letter, and the person to whom it was sent:
James Tate Roan was my husband's Grandfather. He started tracing the Roan Family about 1890. He was only 17 at the time, but had already graduated from College. He wrote letters to newspapers, etc asking for information from various people, and put
together a surprising amount of information. Apparently folks read the personal ads back then.
The letter was written by Bellonie Mae Kelly. She was the daughter of Annis Roan and Alexander Griffin. She was born July 7, 1815 in Caswell County, NC. After the death of her parents, Annis in 1827 and Alexander in 1829, she and her four brothers and sisters were taken to Florida by her Aunt Sarah(Sal1ie) and Uncle Thomas (Indian James) Roan [married 1st cousins] , and raised there. She married James Kelly January 22,1835 in Florida. They had one son, Thomas Kelly born May 28, 1844. He enlisted in the Confederate Army when he was 18 and died in the Soldiers Hospital in Virginia. Where in Virginia she doesn't say.
My Interpretation of the Letter
Original wording is in italics
Envelope: Per Connie & Jim Roan, descendants: The letter was written on April 15, 1899 and mailed from Bristol, Liberty Co, FL and postmarked April 17, 1899. A handwritten note on the envelope of April 21, 1899 was by the recipient because he always wrote the date he received the letter.
The envelope is addressed to Mr. James Tate Roan of St. Louis, Mo with a return address of Bristol, Liberty. Fla. Mr. Roan is addressed below with the return address above him.
The father of the addressee, James Tate Roan, was James Roan whose father was James Tate Roan whose parents were Thomas Roan and Nancy Phelps of Caswell Co, NC. He was a cousin of the letter writer, Bellonie M. Griffin Kelly, whose mother was Annis Roan, whose parents were Thomas Roan and Nancy Phelps.
Letter contents:
Florida Liberty Co
Bristol April 15 [the date of this letter's postmark was 1899]
Mr. James Tate Roan
The opening section
Dear Cousin
I received a package of letters and was so delighted to hear from you. I answered them as quick as I could. I received cousin Frannie Stewart [likely daughter of Asenath Roan and John Stewart] letter one day and yours the next day bearing the news of cousin Nancy's death. I wrote many pages and sent but no answer came so I write again. I answered every the best I could.
This section is about the Roan family line.
You said the most important thing was the parents of my grandfather and what county in Virginia they all came from. I never heard any county mentioned but always heard him [Thomas Roan} speak of Norfolk Virginia. I saw his mother once and heard that he had a sister. They were English people. His mother was born in England and if my grandfather [Thomas Roan] was not born England he was born [1761 per the DAR records] soon after his mothers arrived(?) [The DAR patriot file says Thomas Roan was born in King and Queen, VA]
Middle section about the Phelps
This next section is about her great grandmother Phelps (whose name we do not know) who married Thomas Phelps of Caswell Co [documented elsewhere]. The reference to "old grandfather Phelps" was to Belonie's great-grandfather on the Phelps side: Thomas Phelps.
My great grandmother Phelps [the unknown mother of Nancy Phelps, married to the older Thomas Phelps of Caswell Co] was a daughter of one of the great Lords of England. I have heard the older ones say she [unknown mother of Nancy Phelps] runaway from her father [one of the great Lords] and old grandfather B/P? Phelps was a native of Wales. [B or P appears to be an erasure for the first letter of the next word. Good examples of this is the erasure above at the word "old" and below at "George Roan". This reference has to be a new sentence about Thomas Phelps, Belonnie's great grandfather. If so, Thomas Phelps was from Wales.]
Closing section
This next section is very confusing since no one has supplied evidence for the ancestry of the two Roan brothers mentioned. Refer to the Familyi Chart below. This section makes sense if you add:
· a mother of Nancy Phelps who ran away from England
· Add a sisters to that runaway.
· That added sister marries a Roan bearing sons George Roan and Thomas Roan
Those south Florida? Roans [her 4 brothers and sisters?] wrote to me to know of ol d uncle George Roans parents and brothers but I never so much as heard that he [George Roan] had any kinfolks except old grandmother Phelps [runaway mother of Nancy Phelps]. She [runaway mother of Nancy Phelps] was his [George Roan's] aunt and he [George Roan] married his cousin [Delphia Phelps, daughter of Thomas Phelps] and my grand father [Thomas Roan] married his cousin [Nancy Phelps] a sister of uncle George Roans wife [Delphia Phelps] so they [George and Thomas Roan] was cousins and married sisters [this tells us that their mothers were sisters] xxxx? cousins and my uncle [James P. (Indian James) Roan] and aunt [Sarah (Sallie)] that raised me [Bellonie] was children of these two couple [the two couples were Delphia Phelps + George Roan and Nancy Phelps + Thomas Roan. Their children, Sallie and Thomas Indian James Roan raised Bellonie. I suppose from all I ever heard that those old people run away from England just as they could get a chance. Men would take their children of out their mothers arms saying their children should not be raised under a king and I think they runaway or would have heard something of these former parents. My grand father [Thomas Roan] went in the army very young and was given a pension and follow the drum and was given a pension when he was old he applied for it and claimed it after I left that country so I heard. I will write again if I do not get an answer.
Why I believe Bellonie was referring to Thomas Phelps as the one from Wales
Bellonie uses the terms "great" interchangeably with "old" when referring to great grandparents. So she refers to the mother of Nancy Phelps correctly as "great grandmother Phelps" and to that woman's husband, Thomas Phelps, as "old grandfather Phelps. When referring to her Grandfather Thomas Roan, she says correctly "my grandfather". When referring to George Roan, she says "old uncle" - clearly something like a great uncle. I also contend that the apparent "B/P?" in "old grandfather B/P? Phelps" was an error or erasure of the P in Phelps. Therefore, Thomas Phelps was the great grandfather and was from Wales.
Additional letter written by Bellonie that adds other related information
Chart of Bellonie's ancestors - with suggested parents of George and Thomas Roan
Ancestors of Bellonie - with the deduced mother of Thomas and George Roan
The chart below diagrams the known and documented family of Bellonie and includes a parentage for the Roan brothers which would make Bellonie's last paragraph clear. Please notice that the couples Delphia Phelps & George Roan and Nancy Phelps and Thomas Roan each appear twice - to show their unique relationships. This also is necessary for James P. Indian Roan.
PLEASE WAIT until the images download
A descendant of James Phelps' son Ambrose adds additional support of Welch ancestry.
I received the following email from a Marilyn Phelps mjphelps AT gmail.com 3/2008, a descendant of James.
Oh - also, I just noticed
something on your James Phelps research site (http://pages.suddenlink.net/phelpsdna/JamesPhelps/index.htm),
item 4 at the bottom says "A
1899 letter says that Thomas Phelps, likely brother to James, was from Wales!
(Improved with clarifications)"
"A 1899 letter says that Thomas Phelps
(the elder, not James' son but
possibly related to James), was from Wales! (Improved with clarifications")
My great-grandmother Clara McCreary Phelps told me in 1981 when I asked her the
ethnic background of the family that the Phelps' were Welsh and her side was
Welsh-Irish. So I always thought we were Welsh - was there some indication that
the Phelps' were from somewhere else, and if so, where?
I should say she married in, but 2 McCreary girls (Clara and Glendora) married
the oldest two Phelps boys (Claud and John) and so at least I can confirm that
she was very familiar with the stories and beliefs of her inlaws - James Monroe
Phelps and his father James Galen Phelps, and that they, at least, believed they
were of Welsh extraction. Also James Galen Phelps was known as "Gale" and
grandma McCreary said (when I asked what his name meant - "why did he have a
girls name" I think I asked when I was little), that the name "Galen" was a
Welsh boy's name.
Anyway, I had always thought we were in fact Welsh, so I was wondering if we
weren't Welsh where the researchers though we came from (I mean before the proof
of the 1899 letter you reference).
Further information about the status of the Elder Thomas Phelps
This Thomas Phelps lived in the Gloucester District of Caswell - in the Leasburg area - NOT the area where James lived which was the Richmond District where Mary,Rueben, and Our Thomas were shown in the 1790 Census
THe 1820 census indicated he owned 14 slaves, At his death, they were divided to children of Elizabeth, Delphia, Nancy ROAN and Rachel He also gave slaves to Jacob Thomas (his grand daughter's husband). (Caswell Will Book I 1824 page 314 and Book K January 1825 court page 9.)
From Mark Phelps, Snow Hill/ Latham Phelps, Greensboro, 2001: "The other Thomas Phelps of Caswell County and Item # 437 James Lea as shown in "The Heritage of Caswell County North Carolina: dated 1885 and published by the Caswell County Historical Association, has following on Thomas Phelps: James Lea was a son of William Lea of King and Queen County. On March 16, 1784 James Lea gave power of Attorney to Thomas Phelps of Caswell County saying he was the son and heir of William lea, deceased, empowered Phelps to obtain lawful title to land in Kings and Queen County on waters of Mataponia River near Maddison's Mil said falling to him by heirship. Thomas was a neighbor of James Lea from his deeds and he was a contemporary. He named Gabriel Lea as his executor of his will in 1821 and the Raleigh Register reported that Thomas Phelps died 1823 at age of 96 years. Phelps may have returned to VA to claim a part of the Lea estate himself as both James Lea and Phelps had daughters that married into the Sargent family. This Thomas was not my Thomas Phelps, Sr."
Additional source material provided by Walter Phelps, 1/2012 : Letter of Attorney: James Lea (the son and heir of William Lea, decd.) of Caswell County to Thomas Phelps of same county to “ask, demand, sue for as to obtain lawful title to tract of land in King and Queen County, VA, 35 acres on waters of Matiponi River near Maddison’s Mill, said land falls to me by heirship”. 16 Mar 1784 Wit: H. Haralson, William Lea Source: Caswell Co NC Will Books 1777-1834, 1784 Tax list; and Guardians’ Accounts, 1794-1819
Provided by Doug Phelps 1/2012: King and Queen County is not far from a current CF Phelps wildlife Management Area in Fauquier Co. (see this map and this description). CF Phelps was born in Columbusmaybe, Georgia, USA on 9 Mar 1871 to George Decal Phelps and Amanda Rengress Phelps. He passed away on 29 Dec 1913. George Decal Phelps was born in Calybeate Springs, Georgia, USA on 6 Dec 1834 to Greatgrandpa Phelps . George Decal married Amanda Rengress Phelps and had 7 children. He passed away on 22 Dec 1922 in Bethesda Church, Manchester, Georgia, USA. (source Ancestry.com)